tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post5175471589644477309..comments2023-08-27T04:22:55.468-07:00Comments on The Literary Lab: Taking Risks With StructureUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-38781517957153272192010-09-21T18:41:35.330-07:002010-09-21T18:41:35.330-07:00That, good sir, was fascinating. All my projects a...That, good sir, was fascinating. All my projects at the moment are 1st person present, so not much you can do to play with time in that tense. Still, I like the concept very much.<br /><br />Now I just need an excuse to use it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-45830687094076556692010-09-21T18:08:49.644-07:002010-09-21T18:08:49.644-07:00In one section of my novel-in-eternal-progress, tw...In one section of my novel-in-eternal-progress, two characters are falling in love, but one character has a secret from ten years before that is keeping them from getting too close. So for that section, between each chapter I've inserted a short interlude telling part of the story from ten years before that leads to the secret (which will be revealed at the start of the next section of the book). The idea being that hopefully the structure will emphasize for the reader the fact the secret and/or the past is coming between them by literally interrupting their story.Jabezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09541471929373540252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-49626422429386728702010-09-21T12:49:40.077-07:002010-09-21T12:49:40.077-07:00I read a book of short stories by a local author t...I read a book of short stories by a local author that did a little of what Tara Maya mentioned--showing scenes from different perspectives. <br /><br />It was a collection of stories about households in the same neighborhood, and it took place over the same general time period. <br /><br />The stories were linked by little more than place and theme, but in a few spots the neighbors would interact briefly, or someone would look out a window or across the street and see a neighbor doing something and come to conclusions about what was going on--usually inaccurately. <br /><br />Honestly, the stories themselves weren't that great, but the structure of the book made an impression on me. The structure itself spoke volumes about cultural isolation, prejudices, and what it means to live in a city neighborhood.Jean Michelle Miernikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08971882597502010124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-89650988011137718162010-09-21T12:33:39.932-07:002010-09-21T12:33:39.932-07:00I'm sure the cheese factory will rise again. Y...I'm sure the cheese factory will rise again. You can't keep good cheese down.Tara Mayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09095632631554776002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-21794155596064924722010-09-21T12:33:07.731-07:002010-09-21T12:33:07.731-07:00Scott, I also wanted to do a story where the same ...Scott, I also wanted to do a story where the same scene, or sequence is retold from different PoVs. I know it's been done, but I think it would be fun to do it with magic, in epic fantasy format. I might do that if I ever write a sequel series to Dindi. It would require a lot of careful planning, but could be a huge amount of fun. Death would would a main character. Good times!Tara Mayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09095632631554776002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-44868500989932353602010-09-21T12:08:05.853-07:002010-09-21T12:08:05.853-07:00Really, the idea just wasn't any good. I'l...Really, the idea just wasn't any good. I'll save the cheese factory for something else. I've had that bit kicking around in my head for decades.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-89830199631887100322010-09-21T11:49:03.748-07:002010-09-21T11:49:03.748-07:00No cheese factory? I'm crushed.No cheese factory? I'm crushed.Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-40007011372365115362010-09-21T11:43:56.021-07:002010-09-21T11:43:56.021-07:00Michelle: I had a better idea is what happened. It...Michelle: I had a better idea is what happened. It occured to me that the story I had in mind was not only derivative of something I'd just read, but was also a mean-spirited parody of someone in real life. Also, tarantulas! How can I resist? <br /><br />Nevets: Timmy the tarantula? Maybe.<br /><br />Tara: I like the idea of a braided set of storylines. I will declare that I have no plans to ever write from a first-person POV again. Horatio has taken it out of me these last few years. I hope you like the book when you see it.<br /><br />My next project (the abovementioned "Great Literary Lab Trio" novella) will be in limited omniscient and in linear narrative. The project after that (a long novel about Antarctic explorers) will likely also be in limited omniscient, but in a looping narrative structure that keeps coming back to the same time/place/event. I have a sudden urge to have that "same time/place/event" passage be retold every 10,000 words or so by a different character in close 3rd POV. But I resist, because it's been done before and it seems mere gimmickry.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-70151466026839808332010-09-21T11:00:03.144-07:002010-09-21T11:00:03.144-07:00Scott, your last chapter sounds awesome! I am look...Scott, your last chapter sounds awesome! I am looking forward it. <br /><br />I use a braiding structure, that alternates PoVs, and sometimes one of the storylines is from the past. I think it creates an interesting effect when the stories are juxtaposed, not told in straight chronological order, but as an experiment, one of the novelettes in my anthology is an extracted storyline, told straight through. It's from the PoV of a villain, so I hope it doesn't give readers that the whole series is that tragic.Tara Mayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09095632631554776002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-53442837367691154772010-09-21T10:57:49.329-07:002010-09-21T10:57:49.329-07:00(Side note: tarantulas are like the bears of the a...(Side note: tarantulas are like the bears of the arachnid world.)C. N. Nevetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00375714948653196993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-67356190185876595972010-09-21T10:55:38.469-07:002010-09-21T10:55:38.469-07:00Well, I was losing hope there because Davin has ot...Well, I was losing hope there because Davin has other plans for <i>Bread</i> and I moved on with <i>Cinders</i> and I wasn't sure if we were still all going for that Great Literary Lab Trio. (nice name).<br /><br />Tarantulas. What happened to the processed-cheese factory?<br /><br />Anyway, I'm getting nervous now for something later! You know why. :)Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-60451395305012120292010-09-21T10:47:39.353-07:002010-09-21T10:47:39.353-07:00Michelle: "no longer happens?" I have a ...Michelle: "no longer happens?" I have a story idea for the Great Literary Lab Trio, so it had better happen! Just saying. Mine will be a straightforward narrative, I think. With tarantulas.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-15131640530612254512010-09-21T10:35:05.194-07:002010-09-21T10:35:05.194-07:00Scott, no, I was talking about the mystery/ghost n...Scott, no, I was talking about the mystery/ghost novelette I'm going to write for the combined no-longer-so-secret project we've talked about in the past. However, if that never happens, that's okay. I'll write the novelette anyway. <i>Thirds</i> will be very straightforward. :)Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-8083620614354075052010-09-21T10:19:17.068-07:002010-09-21T10:19:17.068-07:00Shelley: Yes, we have to trust our readers! I try ...Shelley: Yes, we have to trust our readers! I try to assume they're smarter than I am. I like what you say about listening carefully to the possibilities a story has to offer.<br /><br />Michelle: Most of the time, I like a good, straightforward narrative structure. "Cocke & Bull" is pretty much just the story-as-it-moves-along, though I play with POV all the way through it. I think I was just having fun with omniscience after spending years in 1st-person. I will be interested to see how "Thirds" (if that's the novelette you mean) works out!<br /><br />Nevets: You have to take the chance you'll frustrate some of your readers sometimes. Also, it's not necessarily a bad thing as a reader to be totally lost and confused, if it's by the author's design.<br /><br />Domey: The structure of "Rooster" totally works for me. I can't wait to read "Bread." I think there's a lot to be learned about storytelling by writing simple linear narratives. I think you get a stronger sense of what you can do to the structure when you're really confident that the structure itself is solid. If you know what I mean.<br /><br />Anne: Yeah, sometimes the story will demand something unexpected of us. And bravery is often its own reward in the arts, I think.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-35344751587979495352010-09-21T10:01:43.216-07:002010-09-21T10:01:43.216-07:00I've just finished a book that plays with stru...I've just finished a book that plays with structure--dangerous when you write commercial fiction--but the subject screamed to be written this way. Hope it works.Anne R. Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02420000168356370825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-71081492007417384102010-09-21T08:43:40.693-07:002010-09-21T08:43:40.693-07:00I'm excited to read your book, including your ...I'm excited to read your book, including your last chapter, Scott. I'm glad you're so happy with it! <br /><br />With Rooster I did an alternating time line, with one story focusing on my protag as an adult and the other focusing on him when he was a teenager. It felt complicated, but the final result is pretty systematic. From what readers have said, it works best in places there there are good transitions between the two times. In other places, I think it comes off as being a tad random.<br /><br />With Bread, it's fairly linear with one long flashback in the middle. But, the last chapter is told backwards in an attempt, like you, to keep the most dramatic part at the end. <br /><br />Lately I've been trying to write more linearly just because that experience is new to me, and I think it's making me a better writer. It's a skill I should have picked up earlier but never did.Davin Malasarnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09385823575081492949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-61631821946314888212010-09-21T08:22:47.822-07:002010-09-21T08:22:47.822-07:00Sometimes it seems that it's more the exceptio...Sometimes it seems that it's more the exception when I follow traditional structure.<br /><br />One short story I am finishing up ("That Which Survives")opens with with the present tense briefly, drops down into a memoir-style past tense, switches to a traditional past for a while and then catches back up to the present tense for the conclusion.<br /><br />Another story ("When You Wish Upon a God") hops between several different past tense time frames fluidly, using some narrative queues to help the reader from getting lost. There is a general tendency (but not a true pattern) of forward progression among the different timelines.<br /><br />I've gotten positive feedback from both casual readers and gatekeepers on those two stories.<br /><br />Another story which is yet untitled is all in the past tense and follows a J-shaped timeline. It starts at point C, swoops back to B, then back to A, then works back to B, C, and then finishes at D.<br /><br />I hope to find someone to vet this one still to make sure it's not confusing.<br /><br />In <i>Sublimation</i> the overall feel is much more straight forward, but there are a few jumbles here and there where it helps to add suspense by interweaving fragments of slightly different timelines.<br /><br />The sense of time and structure in <i>Ennui and Malaise</i> is hard to describe, but it's very messy. It's 1st person POV of someone who has lost just about all understanding of what's happening around him and even when it's happening. The narrative reflects that. I don't think it will be hard to follow per se, but there is a chance it will frustrate readers who desire a stronger anchor.C. N. Nevetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00375714948653196993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-89985521217008512892010-09-21T07:25:17.793-07:002010-09-21T07:25:17.793-07:00Looking at it the way you're showing, my narra...Looking at it the way you're showing, my narrative structure is SUPER boring. I guess I play with it a bit in Monarch, but not really. That's mostly playing with POV, and it's pretty danged straight forward. My little novelette idea for our project, however...that will play with a lot of things. You'll love it. I think... :)Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-58132538225674336392010-09-21T06:30:44.634-07:002010-09-21T06:30:44.634-07:00I love when writers take chances in their work...w...I love when writers take chances in their work...when they trust the reader has enough brains to follow along. (Readers are smart!)<br /><br />I commend you for challenging yourself and pushing yourself to do something unusual. <br /><br />Sometimes, if we listen very carefully and are fully open to it, a story will take us places that (as a writer) we just really couldn't see coming.<br /><br />Well done, Scott!<br /><br />Shelleystoryqueenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07039684494823420722noreply@blogger.com