tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post7425489321292350945..comments2023-08-27T04:22:55.468-07:00Comments on The Literary Lab: First Paragraphs, First Pages, First Impressions, Et CeteraUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-30785762273330755002010-10-04T06:50:17.789-07:002010-10-04T06:50:17.789-07:00I will in a sec.
But yes, I think they all have s...I will in a sec.<br /><br />But yes, I think they all have some good and valid things to say...just like we all do. But just like I wouldn't want ANYONE here over at the Lit Lab to do, no one should take everything they say 100% to heart and follow all the advice present. Bad idea. Writing and publishing are completely unique things for each individual. <br /><br />Sadly, I think it's the greatest flaw of a newbie not to realize this.Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-58470047689958134412010-10-04T06:43:12.515-07:002010-10-04T06:43:12.515-07:00Yeah, I don't want it to sound like I think th...Yeah, I don't want it to sound like I think they're not helpful for anyone. I'm sure they are. I know that they messed up my writing pretty badly for a while and I've only just now gotten over it.<br /><br />I would never discourage people from visiting them, but I would encourage them to go in to them a bit more tentatively than I did.<br /><br />p.s. Yes, you probably should be. :)C. N. Nevetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00375714948653196993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-52741956604892017342010-10-04T06:38:28.487-07:002010-10-04T06:38:28.487-07:00Nevets, ignore the huge typo in my comment above. ...Nevets, ignore the huge typo in my comment above. It's way too early for me to be commenting on blogs. I really should be working on Monarch right now. <br /><br />I'm grateful I ran across agent blogs. I think I gained some interesting things from them about publishing, but I don't read them much anymore. Agents blogs are a good resource for newbies, especially, who have no clue what even a query is. I'd prefer they come over here, though. :)Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-85913330872321238812010-10-04T06:33:53.228-07:002010-10-04T06:33:53.228-07:00Honestly, until I started reading internet advice ...Honestly, until I started reading internet advice from agents and supposedly agent-savvy civilians, I thought beginnings were a strong point of mine, and so had every writing class and crit group I'd been part of.<br /><br />I'm not saying they have no value for anyone, but I honestly wish I had never read a single blog from or website of an agent giving general advice.C. N. Nevetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00375714948653196993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-62934647670612526732010-10-04T06:29:30.430-07:002010-10-04T06:29:30.430-07:00Well it only took me forever to get over here, but...Well it only took me forever to get over here, but thanks for this post, Mr. Bailey. I quite enjoyed it, and having been the finalist in one of those huge first paragraph contests, I've kind of been thrown into a huge funk the past few years over first pages and paragraphs in books. <br /><br />I agree with you.<br /><br />Just start the story and go. Beginnings don't even frighten me anymore, thank heavens. It only took more 16 years to get to that point.Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-75990345586366997662010-09-29T13:45:55.421-07:002010-09-29T13:45:55.421-07:00It's been a hectic day, so I apologize if this...It's been a hectic day, so I apologize if this comes out as really cold harsh. Please forgive that.<br /><br />But I really don't see any value in substituting one sacred and holy page for another. It sounds better, but it's really the same exact problem relocated. Instead of rewriting Page 1 over and over again I'm rewriting page 99 over and over again.<br /><br />Meh.C. N. Nevetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00375714948653196993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-27785761745967764612010-09-29T12:17:30.874-07:002010-09-29T12:17:30.874-07:00Jim Murdoch: For some reason, blogger keeps markin...Jim Murdoch: For some reason, blogger keeps marking your comments as spam and I have to go in and manually un-spam them. No idea what's up with that, but your comment didn't make it to this page until just a few seconds ago. I shake my fist at blogger.<br /><br />Anyway, yeah, I'd agree with FMF about the 99th page, though a more fair test (because people can fuss with their 99th or whatever number page as much as with the first page) would be to open a MS at a random spot. I haven't clicked on either link, so maybe one of those sites actually does that. But really, you know, the best test of a book is to sit down and start reading it from page 1.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-86827618588425653362010-09-29T10:17:08.688-07:002010-09-29T10:17:08.688-07:00except maybe how to please agents.except maybe how to please agents.Davin Malasarnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09385823575081492949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-32386387553155155652010-09-29T10:16:15.781-07:002010-09-29T10:16:15.781-07:00Nevets: There is very little to be learned about w...Nevets: There is very little to be learned about writing from agent blogs.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-60664239705050486272010-09-29T10:03:03.776-07:002010-09-29T10:03:03.776-07:00This argument is one of the reasons I have stopped...This argument is one of the reasons I have stopped reading any and all agent blogs. Got my mind all messed up and risked getting my writing in all the wrong places.C. N. Nevetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00375714948653196993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-60631929317646585792010-09-29T09:24:10.784-07:002010-09-29T09:24:10.784-07:00Well, mostly grammatically-correct. Grammar is par...Well, mostly grammatically-correct. Grammar is part of the system of our language which makes communication possible. One fault with beginning writers' prose is often that the sentences are badly-formed and ungrammatical, which leads to the reader not actually understanding what the writer is trying to say. Or are you getting into an argument about hyphenation?scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-53799741748765238842010-09-29T09:09:32.197-07:002010-09-29T09:09:32.197-07:00Grammatically correct?Grammatically correct?Davin Malasarnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09385823575081492949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-84385107309934789382010-09-29T09:05:17.875-07:002010-09-29T09:05:17.875-07:00Anette: See, that sentence is a hook for you, but ...Anette: See, that sentence is a hook for you, but not for me. Which I think means that Westerfeld simply wrote the book and started where he started. It's not as if the first sentence is "It was raining cat vomit" or "It was raining vomiting cats" or something over-the-top. He is, in fact, commenting on the weather, which is perversely enough something agents who play this "strong first page" game will warn you against doing.<br /><br />Part of the problem is that most agents will only see the first page or three of any MS, and will reject most of those by the end of the first sentence. So their view of novels is skewed toward that. But also remember that most of the novels in their slush piles are awful, badly-written things. My basic advice is to write a good book using strong, active, grammatically-correct prose and you won't have to play the "strong first page" game because all of your book will be engaging and readable as a byproduct of having learned to write well no matter what page you're writing.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-57494905257169036262010-09-29T08:45:09.944-07:002010-09-29T08:45:09.944-07:00Annette, I think that's what most of the agent...Annette, I think that's what most of the agents I've seen on-line are always recommending. "A great hook is nothing if the rest of the book is weak." (beat) "But you really need a strong hook, or we won't even look at the rest of the book." (beat) "But don't forget the rest of your book." (beat) "And especially those first three pages."C. N. Nevetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00375714948653196993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-65515453103502372842010-09-29T07:14:02.922-07:002010-09-29T07:14:02.922-07:00Your post startles me! It's a funny thing to ...Your post startles me! It's a funny thing to be startled by common sense.Ienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13101183403343411221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-43207185102622958002010-09-29T07:09:07.198-07:002010-09-29T07:09:07.198-07:00Upon reading other responses to this post, I'v...Upon reading other responses to this post, I've been thinking more about this..<br /><br />I feel like I'm about to play devil's advocate, because almost everyone has responded that the emphasis placed on hooks is bad.<br /><br />I don't see why we can't both have a nice hook AND begin as we intend to continue. It's all about being true to your story (as opposed to trying to please everyone).<br /><br />It doesn't have to be an explosive scene or an awe-inspiring bit of prose. It just has to fit the story.<br /><br />Scott Westerfeld did this successfully for me in his YA novel Uglies. First sentence:<br /><br />"The early summer sky was the color of cat vomit."<br /><br />BAM! I was hooked. The sentence paints a setting and sets the tone that will carry through the first several chapters of the story. Why was I hooked? It intrigued me. It delighted me. <br /><br />I just wanted to point out that while we're all on the "consistent quality" wagon, that it doesn't rule out ALSO having a good first sentence, first paragraph, or first impression.<br /><br />AnetteAnette J Kreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15675193405511996480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-86242912640810600152010-09-29T05:50:53.322-07:002010-09-29T05:50:53.322-07:00There is a person out there hawking the meme that ...There is a person out there hawking the meme that first sentences must "hook" with "tension" -- because Maass said to.<br /><br />This person (an unpublished author) presents as an expert, has a blog that flogs AND offers to edit writers' works for a very "affordable" price.<br /><br />Total quack/hack. It's an example of the treacherous world lying in wait for new writers.Sharpiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12241274424695262364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-3111785496941758902010-09-29T02:47:21.924-07:002010-09-29T02:47:21.924-07:00Fantastic post.
Great novels to choose for the co...Fantastic post.<br /><br />Great novels to choose for the comparision as well.wordsareforwritinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11236493803322451842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-64642383870238711912010-09-29T00:00:34.541-07:002010-09-29T00:00:34.541-07:00Ford Madox Ford said, "Open the book to page ...Ford Madox Ford said, "Open the book to page ninety-nine and read, and the quality of the whole will be revealed to you." It was a direct response to the overworked first page. There's a blog called <a href="http://page99test.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">The Page 99 Test</a> that does just that, posts the 99th page of a novel and let's you judge it from that and there's also a new site called <a href="http://page99test.com/" rel="nofollow">page99test.com</a> which is using the same approach to help writers promote their books.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-83564783274467145632010-09-28T17:53:52.129-07:002010-09-28T17:53:52.129-07:00Begin as you intend to go on.
I will keep this th...Begin as you intend to go on.<br /><br />I will keep this thought with me for a long time.<br /><br />Thank you, Scott.storyqueenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07039684494823420722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-16524295058894714642010-09-28T16:49:27.190-07:002010-09-28T16:49:27.190-07:00Ah, the chatty omniscient narrator. Maybe his time...Ah, the chatty omniscient narrator. Maybe his time to shine has come again.Tara Mayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09095632631554776002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-10840009512181454722010-09-28T16:33:45.462-07:002010-09-28T16:33:45.462-07:00Domey: I am going to some day write a piece where ...Domey: I am going to some day write a piece where I announce the POV shifts ("We will hear more of this from Jimmy...").scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-12377618291520031002010-09-28T16:15:04.972-07:002010-09-28T16:15:04.972-07:00Scott! I love that phrase "begin as you inten...Scott! I love that phrase "begin as you intend to go on". That captures some vague idea I have been grasping at for so long without being able to articulate. My best attempt was something like "It's okay to start slow" but your statement says so much more.<br /><br />Regarding the opening of Anna Karenina, I've found that another important function of that opening is to establish the omniscient point of view. In my stories, if I start off and stay too long in one POV, it catches readers off guard when I do switch.Davin Malasarnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09385823575081492949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-50816625461422146502010-09-28T12:43:28.902-07:002010-09-28T12:43:28.902-07:00I'm SO glad you posted this. I've been lo...I'm SO glad you posted this. I've been looking over my first pages and chapters and I KNOW that my stories are starting where they need to start but it is hard to sift through the advice out there that says we have to start things out with this huge bang.<br />I like to get a feel for the MC before I'm hit with something like that. Most times...<br />Thanks!Jolene Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14809468564016928636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-51754913585981698922010-09-28T12:41:16.862-07:002010-09-28T12:41:16.862-07:00You always seem to provide Big Ideas that I can di...You always seem to provide Big Ideas that I can digest...Thanks!J.B. Chicoinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06894797553204276281noreply@blogger.com