tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post6581342690151880262..comments2023-08-27T04:22:55.468-07:00Comments on The Literary Lab: Things I No Longer BelieveUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-19310809997230403122010-05-30T16:10:27.916-07:002010-05-30T16:10:27.916-07:00I love this :)I love this :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10255083486196598825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-59520975671148474802010-05-29T10:49:40.680-07:002010-05-29T10:49:40.680-07:00Anne: Yeah, the website thing is just...well. Sad....Anne: Yeah, the website thing is just...well. Sad.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-81012571997175593462010-05-29T06:43:19.011-07:002010-05-29T06:43:19.011-07:00This blog and comments are always good for highlig...This blog and comments are always good for highlighting ambiguity. Rules are important to know well so they can be broken intentionally, with purpose and flair. That's when things get interesting.Jean Michelle Miernikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08971882597502010124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-61230302994115389222010-05-28T21:01:54.429-07:002010-05-28T21:01:54.429-07:00Scott, I wasn't talking about Maass's book...Scott, I wasn't talking about Maass's books or seminars--which are a great way of learning those rules we're talking about before we break them.<br /><br />What I object to is what you mentioned in your comment: that prescriptive "what we're looking for this month" on the website--which is always something Publisher's Lunch has recently announced somebody else has just sold. Doesn't show a very creative mind (or spirit.)Anne R. Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02420000168356370825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-72906142018003386322010-05-28T17:04:45.603-07:002010-05-28T17:04:45.603-07:00Anne: I know people who've taken Maass' se...Anne: I know people who've taken Maass' seminars and come away energized and full of the spirit, so to speak. So his way is the right way for some; it's not the right way for me.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-10921467368610887792010-05-28T17:02:36.510-07:002010-05-28T17:02:36.510-07:00Everyone has responded with something insightful. ...Everyone has responded with something insightful. I like the comment that what works for one person might not work for another. Needless to say, this is not a call to lose the rules of craft, but to adhere to them in our own unique way. No two fingerprints are equal, right?Jennifer A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06618639466963813761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-33147860029911435542010-05-28T16:44:39.023-07:002010-05-28T16:44:39.023-07:00Bookfraud just said what I was going to say in rul...Bookfraud just said what I was going to say in rule #1: learn the rules before you break them.<br /><br />But you're right that it's as important to break rules as learn them in the first place. <br /><br />Scott, I'm glad somebody spoke up about the cringe-making "wish list" on the Maass website. It seems to say, "If you want to work with us, write something soulless and derivative, really, really fast: Hacks 'R' Us."Anne R. Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02420000168356370825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-33849095236507244132010-05-28T13:45:45.803-07:002010-05-28T13:45:45.803-07:00great blog,though i have no idea of how i reached ...great blog,though i have no idea of how i reached it...<br /><br />the only three rules i got out of my m.f.a.<br /><br />rule #1: know the rules before you break them.<br /><br />rule #2: don't listen to rules that mandate.<br /><br />rule #3: don't be afraid to suck.Bookfraudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06294034687592676200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-37102949455376973792010-05-28T12:20:01.783-07:002010-05-28T12:20:01.783-07:00Never deal in absolutes.
It's an oxymoron, of...Never deal in absolutes.<br /><br />It's an oxymoron, of course, since the above axiom is itself an absolute, so by its own virtue should never be dealt with. Perhaps we can change it to:<br /><br />Never deal in absolutes other than this one.Rick Daleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05173516899130463413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-74275290492814540732010-05-28T11:20:24.753-07:002010-05-28T11:20:24.753-07:00I feel you've got to know these guidelines (if...I feel you've got to know these guidelines (if this term works better) before you can go about breaking them. They should still be in your consciousness, like an operating system. From there you hack it, as you advance, and hopefully move past them. But I have to agree with Scott's frustration: so many of the great books I love ignore these rules and others. I worry that when I submit a manuscript for publication that the person on the other end of the query is going down the sample pages with a checklist like this one. I've certainly heard a lot of negative feedback about critique groups doing the same thing: standardizing the work until it all sounds the same. <br /><br />As an unpublished writer it's easy to seize on a list like this and go through my work, hoping that following these rules will bring me closer to publication, but I simultaneously dread that following them will cut all of the life from my work. It’s a catch-22 that I have no solution for. Trust the industry to let me in if I follow the guidelines? Or just write what I’m going to write knowing that I may never get in the door?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08268062299073884365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-77742068381410540212010-05-28T11:00:28.781-07:002010-05-28T11:00:28.781-07:00Michelle: Yes, there's a sort of beginning lev...Michelle: Yes, there's a sort of beginning level writing where it's likely best to follow these rules as best as we can until we've learned what basic storytelling and narrative craft is. But after that, writing becomes a sort of integrated system instead of a list of rules, and more and more often of late I find that the idea of a sort of paint-by-numbers writing irritates me no end. The longer I'm at this, the more difficult writing becomes because I try more difficult things all the time, and work without a net more often. I'm exploring territory where either the writing works or it doesn't, and the rules that get flung at us seem more-or-less irrelevant. I don't think in terms of "show versus tell" or "passive versus active verbs" or "head-hopping" or any of that. It's either writing that works--that does what I think I want it to do--or it doesn't work.<br /><br />I also am aware that, you know, I might not know what I'm talking about at all. I might be completely deluded about all of this but lack critical distance to see it. Anything's possible.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-68994281211382267212010-05-28T10:50:28.896-07:002010-05-28T10:50:28.896-07:00Oh, and that's why I hate that they are called...Oh, and that's why I hate that they are called RULES. They are not rules unless you <i>make</i> them a rule for your own writing. We need to come up with a better term. Or something. I have a headache now.Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-55737747321659445032010-05-28T10:48:14.522-07:002010-05-28T10:48:14.522-07:00Scott, I think that's true. I write better now...Scott, I think that's true. I write better now that I have followed many of these rules and figured out if they work for me or not. Everyone's different, and even though one rule might work for me, it may not work for another. It's the mentality out there that we have to follow ALL of the rules or we're terrible writers that frustrates the heck out of me.Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-40793620576155083722010-05-28T10:44:59.392-07:002010-05-28T10:44:59.392-07:00Great writers can break the rules. But getting pub...Great writers can break the rules. But getting published means you first have to have someone acknowledge you are great. I hope you are lucky enough to be one of the few who can soar beyond the rules! Please wave to me as you pass! :0 (I'll be the one cowering in the corner.)<br /><br />MartinaMartina Boonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358736828122139189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-8185378696465569582010-05-28T10:42:22.396-07:002010-05-28T10:42:22.396-07:00You still have to write well, and craft compelling...You still have to write well, and craft compelling stories, though. This is not an argument in favor of poor technique or intellectual laziness or willful ignorance!scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-75664544071930227232010-05-28T10:37:29.507-07:002010-05-28T10:37:29.507-07:00AMEN!
I wish there was a way to yell louder than ...AMEN!<br /><br />I wish there was a way to yell louder than caps lock on the internet.L. T. Hosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12448176940211118898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-54438240276519280152010-05-28T10:35:04.759-07:002010-05-28T10:35:04.759-07:00yes, yes.
thank you very much :)yes, yes.<br />thank you very much :)Oliviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15613422882575814725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-45708383842565796212010-05-28T10:27:52.369-07:002010-05-28T10:27:52.369-07:00Yes I like it. I like it a lot.
Knowing the rules...Yes I like it. I like it a lot.<br /><br />Knowing the rules and when to break them is perhaps the biggest secret to attaining the ephemeral writer's voice.Mayowahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02123151836752576609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-63876937159365521922010-05-28T10:23:02.846-07:002010-05-28T10:23:02.846-07:00alrighty then...alrighty then...Christine Fonsecahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986034666903054819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-48139042058678356192010-05-28T10:18:28.528-07:002010-05-28T10:18:28.528-07:00Bridget: You should try reading Italo Calvino and ...<b>Bridget:</b> You should try reading Italo Calvino and see what you think. Very experimental, but it works on a lot of levels. Some levels, not so much, from what I've read on a few reviews lately. Still, I think when we hear agents and publishers speak of what works, it is like critics for movies - the critics are always looking at things from the creative standpoint and the professional standpoint. That's great and all, but I think many times it's the reader that knows best in the end. Many times it's the works that are written entirely without regard to rules that make it big. <br /><br />I think there's a huge difference between ignorance and newbie writing and knowing what you're doing with the craft. I happen to think some of the "rules" on Scott's list are great things to abide. For me. For others, though, it's not always the case.Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-81667371051303970552010-05-28T10:17:54.092-07:002010-05-28T10:17:54.092-07:00I will admit to a certain amount of crankiness lea...I will admit to a certain amount of crankiness leading to this post. It occurs to me that if writers listened to all the industry advice available, we'd write nothing but lowest-common-denominator, one-dimensional, easily-digestable bits of pabulum.<br /><br />All of my favorite books violate some, most, or all of these guidelines. Almost every bestselling literary fiction book I've read in the last two years violates most of these rules. I cannot, in fact, think of a good book that doesn't violate at least half of them.<br /><br />Miss Sharp: I already have an agent, and he's not Don Maass, no. My agent's website doesn't have a shopping list of "premises I'm looking for this month."scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-56289372608226339752010-05-28T10:11:55.185-07:002010-05-28T10:11:55.185-07:00Michelle: Actually I have, then I got chicken, but...Michelle: Actually I have, then I got chicken, but suddenly I feel brave again...<br />...Thanks Literary Lab!J.B. Chicoinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06894797553204276281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-6238600711935278122010-05-28T10:10:41.022-07:002010-05-28T10:10:41.022-07:00Bridget: Have you tried throwing it all out for aw...<b>Bridget:</b> Have you tried throwing it all out for awhile to see what happens? I'm all for experimentation to see if I can break out of the box. I think walls/rules are necessary to a point, but we should never limit ourselves to them. We should know about them and then be able to break them, bend them, or ignore them entirely.Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-72673722662084029602010-05-28T10:06:56.240-07:002010-05-28T10:06:56.240-07:00If all that weren't true or necessary, I think...If all that weren't true or necessary, I think I might actually enjoy writing again...J.B. Chicoinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06894797553204276281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2092805684169371138.post-9816711261764055982010-05-28T10:05:20.800-07:002010-05-28T10:05:20.800-07:00Obviously you have no intention of submitting to t...Obviously you have no intention of submitting to the Maass Agency. O_oMiss Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15045004653114991953noreply@blogger.com